How An Explorer And Craigslist Sent Me To Superior Court.

"J. Drew Silvers" (drewcoustic) 01/06/2014 at 10:30 • Filed to: craigslist, scam, lawsuit, sued, explorer, jalopnik, oppositelock

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Craigslist selling seems to be a common joke online and also comes up somewhat frequently among car enthusiasts when a few of us get together. I understand this rather well as a young man who has bought and sold over a dozen vehicles using that method over the years. Ludicrous trade offers are commonplace and you meet some really interesting characters when showing your car, most of which are a waste of time, but I think I have one of the more extreme stories to tell, which I will start from the beginning.

That is a 1999 Ford Explorer I (stupidly) sold a mint 1995 Firebird Formula 6-speed for in 2007. I bought the Explorer with 68,000 on the odometer and kept it stock other than adding a roof rack, stereo, and some bigger tires. At the time I worked in the golf industry as a manager at a country club and thought an SUV would suit my needs better than a muscle car, but after two years, I decided otherwise. The car I was going to replace the Explorer with was a G35 sedan with a 6-speed which were hard to come by in 2009, so I needed to shake the Ford (which had been on Craigslist for over a month) quickly and dropped the price below the blue book value.

The Explorer was clean for being ten years old and was only showing about 90,000 miles at the time. It had never given me a single problem until about a month before posting it on Craigslist when the "check engine" light popped up due to a misfire. I work on my own cars, but couldn't figure it out after replacing the plug wires and coil pack, so I took it to a shop where the owner told me it was either as complicated as a head gasket, or as simple as a bad spark plug. He called me later and said they found it was the DPFE (emissions device) and that I could come pick up my fixed car. It stayed as my daily driver for a month after that point until someone finally emailed me about it.

A guy who lived about an hour south of me wanted to look at the Explorer, so I had a friend come over to my house that night to be on the safe side. The prospective buyer showed up after the sun had gone down, in the pouring rain and I could tell from what he was saying that he knew nothing about the mechanics of a vehicle, but really tried to act the part. He took it for a spin around the block while his girlfriend, my friend, and I waited in my living room. He came back and offered me less than I was asking, but I needed to sell the car so I could grab up that Infiniti and accepted. During this time, I had my paperwork laid out on my coffee table, which included a receipt from the recent DPFE repair, the title to the vehicle, and two copies of an "as-is" bill of sale for us each to sign and keep. My friend counted the buyer's $3,300 cash, confirmed it was all there, we each signed both copies of the bill of sale, and the title. He went on his way for me to never see him again... Or so I thought...

About a day and a half later, when I was at work, the buyer tried to call me and I didn't pick up because I wasn't in a place to do so. When I checked my email a little later, he had sent me a long, irritated ramble about how he was driving "my" car and it started skipping, choking, shaking, and running extremely rough. I sent him an email back and said it didn't make any sense to me because I had been driving it just fine for about a month before hand. A few hours later he sent another email saying how he had taken it to a shop, had all the fluids changed, new spark plugs, wires, and an overall tune up, but that didn't help. I politely told him that it was not doing that when I sold it to him and that the car was no longer mine because he bought it "as-is" and also signed a witnessed document saying the same thing, releasing my liability. He denied signing a bill of sale...

I called my lawyer and he told me to just stop responding to him because I had done everything right and followed procedure. The emails and constant phone calls continued and he told me to do the "right thing" and take the car back or reimburse him for the money he had spent on it so far, but I never responded to him. The thing is, I wasn't hiding anything from him because I showed him the receipt from the last repair which had fixed the only issue I ever had with the Explorer and I drove it long enough after that point to be assured the problem had been remedied. What he did to it after he left my house that night? I have no idea, so I wasn't about to take back a car that he could have had second thoughts about and tampered with, thinking I would take it back. Still the emails continued and he kept going on about "implied warranty" and all sorts of other jargon without speaking to a lawyer of his own. Eventually he left me alone. Until...

About three months later a letter came in the mail from the magistrate court in my county. He was suing me over the Explorer escapade. My attorney told me to stay calm because he wouldn't win the case.

This is where it gets good.

My witness and I headed to magistrate court without my lawyer (he had no reason to go, it was a shut case) and we waited in the court room for our turn. When we both stepped up to the bench, we were sworn in and then the judge asked the buyer what he was claiming against me because she didn't understand his paperwork (again, he didn't have a lawyer working with him). He looked at me and said "I'm suing him for fraud." The judge's eyes looked up from her paperwork and she said "Are you sure you aren't claiming 'damages'?" "No, I'm claiming FRAUD!" he said. She came back at him with: "Are you sure you want to do that?" to which he then said "Yes!". The judge sighed a little and said: "Fine, have it your way then. Fraud is a criminal charge and this is a small claims court. I am going to push your case to the Superior Court and someone from Atlanta will be contacting you to proceed with the case from there. Leave my courtroom." The expression fell off the buyer's face, his girlfriend and whom I assume was her father had to pick their jaws up off the floor. My friend and I scurried out of the building laughing and as we were leaving, saw the buyer and his two accomplices walking down the sidewalk, flailing their arms and screaming at each other. Surely it was over. There was no way this guy would push this petty case to Superior Court... I was wrong again...

About a month later I received a trial notice in the mail from the Fulton County Clerk of Superior Court in Atlanta. The buyer had followed through and still had no attorney as his listing was filed under "pro-se". I couldn't make the first court date, so I had my attorney send the buyer and the court itself a notice to have the trial moved out a week or two. Both of these documents were sent with a "return receipt" so the person who took delivery of the letters signed a post card attached to it, which the mail carrier then ripped off and mailed back to me, proving who had accepted it. I received another letter with a new trial date, which the buyer then moved out another few weeks himself (I think he was trying to play games) and then finally had my real and final trial date about a year after selling him the stupid Explorer. I sent my witness a subpoena to get him out of his college classes at Clemson for a few days and we set out to court.

The buyer still didn't have a lawyer of his own and my lawyer had decided to opt out of showing because he didn't feel the need to charge me for showing up at a petty case, so I filed as pro-se before stepping into the courtroom, no big deal.

The trial started and went exactly as I had thought and the buyer blamed me for selling him what he called a "fraudulent vehicle", he called his girlfriend to the witness stand who really had nothing to say to the point of the judge asking what the purpose of her being on the stand actually was and I could see his fuse getting increasingly shorter. The buyer had taken the Explorer to a Ford dealership and had them itemize everything which was not in new condition on the car and the "repair" total to bring it back to showroom condition was a hair over $10,000, which is the amount he was trying to push on me on top of the criminal charge. When it was my turn I did put the buyer on the witness stand and asked him about the "as-is" bill of sale he had signed, which he denied and said he wouldn't ever put his name on such a thing. Then I grabbed my copy of the bill of sale as well as the return receipt that he had signed when I changed the court date a few months before. I handed both of those documents to the judge so he could compare and he became even more angry and said "I'm no handwriting expert, but...please step down from the stand and take your seat."

The judge asked the buyer for a closing statement and he still denied signing the bill of sale, did everything short of cursing my name and then sat back down. But when the judge asked me for a final statement, I stood up about halfway and said "No, your honor, I'm just going to let this play out." and then sat back down. The judge told the buyer that he had no case, was well aware that the "as-is" bill of sale was legitimate, and it wouldn't matter anyway because the state of Georgia falls under the "buyer beware" rule. We were then angrily asked to leave the court room as the judge's face turned a nice red hue...

Don't believe me? Here is a screen shot of the details. If you really want to look it up, the whole thing is public record and posted online, which is where this came from, but I still did some smudging over the details because I'm not a jerk:

Anyways...

The moral of the story, kids, is that Craigslist is full of a bunch of bat-shit-crazy people who will spend thousands of dollars to make a fool out of themselves, so cover your back and take all necessary steps when you sell a car to anyone. Even the honest people get pulled through the mud sometimes.

Oh, and the Infiniti? I didn't get it anyway. I ended up buying this little gem instead:

Because sometimes I make weird decisions and buy cars on a whim, that's why...

If you think I'm an ass and should have just taken the car back, you may change your mind if you give my life blog a read.

NoahthePorscheGuy > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:08

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Hilarious. Fucking Craigslist.

TheLOUDMUSIC- Put it in H! > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:12

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You should repost this on Monday, looks like FP material to me.

Jedidiah > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:13

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If you're ever in the mood for a laugh, Search for "custom" in the Cars/Trucks section of Craigslist. Look at the rice, redneck trucks, and ruined cars and let the hilarity ensue.

AeroEagle333 > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:14

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Great read. I'm glad everything worked out for you. I've sold three motorcycles on CL and have never gone through the trouble that you did with the "as-is" bill of sale and whatnot. I consider myself lucky after reading about your mess.

J. Drew Silvers > TheLOUDMUSIC- Put it in H! 01/05/2014 at 23:22

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What do you mean by that exactly? This is my first Kinja blog.

TheLOUDMUSIC- Put it in H! > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:28

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We get a lot more readers on Monday, and what I mean by FP is Jalopnik.

MooseKnuckles > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:31

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blog link doesn't work, gotta loose a 'W'. not a big deal, just pointing it out

Tyler's SVT Focus Hates Him > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:32

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You can 'share' a post to Oppositelock after posting it. Simply click the arrow-in-a-box icon in the top-right of the screen and select Oppositelock.

Great article, btw. It's hilarious the kind of people you meet on Craigslist, especially the stupid ones.

SonorousSpeedJoe > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:35

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Oppositelock is a subset of Jalopnik that functions as its off-topic blog, so we refer to Jalopnik as the front page (FP). Since you published your post on Oppo, the writers at Jalopnik will likely notice your post and share it with their readership by linking back to here on their blog, thus giving your post some more exposure.

J. Drew Silvers > SonorousSpeedJoe 01/05/2014 at 23:40

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That much I know, but I assume "reposting" it would probably not be the best idea since I've already had it up once, right?

J. Drew Silvers > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:42

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I get it loud and clear now. I didn't know about the whole "share" thing. I manage my own blog, but I'm still figuring out Kinja. Thanks :)

J. Drew Silvers > MooseKnuckles 01/05/2014 at 23:45

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Thanks, fixed!

J. Drew Silvers > NoahthePorscheGuy 01/05/2014 at 23:48

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It hasn't turned me away just yet. I keep coming back for more.

SonorousSpeedJoe > J. Drew Silvers 01/05/2014 at 23:50

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If you know about the share function, then you can use that to create another short intro to this post at a later time and call attention to it.

You can also edit your post to change the blog it's posted on (though I don't know how this affects replies) and then use the share function to share it here so that the staff notices while keeping the post on your own blog.

J. Drew Silvers > SonorousSpeedJoe 01/05/2014 at 23:53

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It still has a shot at being noticed if I just "share" it normally though, I would assume, right?

J. Drew Silvers > AeroEagle333 01/06/2014 at 00:01

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It was a pain. Actually, the whole thing was funny until it started to drag out over a few months, and then it became annoying. At one point I did contact the guy and told him it would make it easier on both if he would actually speak to a lawyer. He either did and still went after it on his own, or he was so arrogant that he didn't. We may never know.

Dropfox2 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 00:04

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I have bought and sold a lot of cars on Craigslist and I am always on edge for a week straight after I sell a car because you never know what kind of scam some idiot can try and pull. I sold an integra to this kid one time and he drove it home with some other car tags on it and got pulled over and the car got impounded and he called me because I would have to come sign the papers to get it out of impound. He didn't try anything funny he just wanted his car back but I was so nervous about him just wanting his money back or if I could get in any legal trouble but it all worked out.

J. Drew Silvers > Dropfox2 01/06/2014 at 00:08

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I'm pretty sure my case was the exception to the most common denominator. I'm just happy I kept my ducks in a row and have a cautionary tale about why it's important. Haha. But, yeah, I'm still like you with staying on-edge every time I have sold something on CL since.

SonorousSpeedJoe > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 00:09

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If you click the share button next to the Facebook like button at the top right, you're given the option to create a new post of sorts that essentially frames the original post (while retaining the same comments section) if there's text entered in the title or body of the share post you're creating; here's an example from Oppo shared to Jalopnik . You can use this method to share a post to here from your own blog or to reshare a post made on here, as I've done .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

If you don't enter text in the title or body, the share takes the form of a link to the original post that looks like the examples you can see on the FP ; the original title, intro text and lead pic are retained, and the blog that post was made on is pointed out.

J. Drew Silvers > SonorousSpeedJoe 01/06/2014 at 00:10

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Thanks. I didn't know there was a method to any of that.

Dropfox2 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 00:12

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Yea that's not even my only scare selling cars on Craigslist I have more stories but after reading yours I'm definately grabbing a stack of those ready typed bill of sales from the dmv just to be safe.

J. Drew Silvers > Dropfox2 01/06/2014 at 00:13

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Good plan :) Don't forget your witness as well.

promoted by the color red > Jedidiah 01/06/2014 at 03:35

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I talked my friend out of buying a salvage-titled Scion TC with "Lamborghini doors".

Dusty Ventures > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 05:06

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I'm going to reschedule this to post at 10:30 when the Jalopnik staff are in the office and have had their first cup of coffee. Best way to ensure they see this and put it on the front page.

J. Drew Silvers > Dusty Ventures 01/06/2014 at 05:08

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Incredible. Thank you, sir! :)

NoahthePorscheGuy > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 09:00

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scheduled... hmmm

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 10:41

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WOW, what a crazy idiot.

davedave1111 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 10:43

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I'm guessing that's not a loser-pays-costs jurisdiction...

J. Drew Silvers > davedave1111 01/06/2014 at 10:55

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I didn't pay any court fees, but I was responsible for my own attorney. I could have taken him back to court to recover wages and all of that junk, but I just let it go. I wanted it to be over and move on.

hedbutter > Jedidiah 01/06/2014 at 11:05

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You are correct: 1995 Custom GMC Safari

crowmolly > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 12:38

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This is one of my biggest fears selling cars to people.

In every case I end up giving a full disclosure statement and have them sign a bill of sale with a witness. I don't play "pricing" games so you can rip off the DMV nor will I "lend you my plates" to get home. Way, way to many assholes out there.

True story: My uncle sold a car (with loaner plates...) to a guy who didn't title it or sign any paperwork, etc and used it in a bank robbery. Moral? Watch your ass.

BrownMiataDieselWagon > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 12:49

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Why would anyone give up a good Firebird?

The Ghost of Oppo > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 13:20

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I love how people on CL expect cars is mint condition for less than $5k.

J. Drew Silvers > The Ghost of Oppo 01/06/2014 at 13:24

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My Explorer was as close to mint as it could be after ten years and nearly 100k. That $10,000 he claimed was everything from bushings, to hoses, and also an entire paint job, even though the biggest paint issue was probably a clear coat scratch here or there.

The Ghost of Oppo > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 14:35

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Yeah some guy tried that with me when I sold my 9 year old Jetta that his wife described as "better than excellent condition"

TulsaMtnBiker (OkieRising) > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:38

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Moral of the story. Always have the Bill of Sale notarized. Worked out well in this case however.

The Ghost of Oppo > promoted by the color red 01/06/2014 at 15:48

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How dare you call yourself his friend. That car could be worth less than scrap metal one day!

Slave2anMG > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:49

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I wish the judge had dope-slapped that fool.

And good choice on the MGB if I say so myself :)

Chris Zimmer > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:51

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WTF? Take the car back? You sold it. You had a bill of sale. No way should you have taken it back. Refusing to to take it back doesn't make you an ass, but taking it back would have made you a sucker.

MTY85 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:51

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Not a bad looking truck. That red color is almost orange metallic, and the wheels are pretty sharp. Should have sold it to me if you were up north here in a Yankee state!

afaik > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:52

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did you end up getting a cost award against him for all the wasted time etc?

112358132134 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:54

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next time

buffalodawg > TheLOUDMUSIC- Put it in H! 01/06/2014 at 15:56

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You did the right thing Drew. We have got to stop cutting the stupid any slack regarding anything.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:57

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hehehehehe, craigslist - maybe a hand job would have settled things quicker

klurejr > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:57

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Having a third party sign the Bill of Sale is a fantastic Idea. I will have to do that the next time I sell something.

I have sold and purchased a few vehicles via Craigslist and never had any trouble, and I plan to continue doing so. Great story, thanks for sharing!

Krash-Kadillak > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:59

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Cool story, but never EVAR let a prospective buyer take your vehicle out by themselves.....

Oasis > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:59

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Why do you have two first names? Is that common in the south?

PaulCahill-Go2Fast > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:59

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while not nearly as exciting, I sold a pioneer head unit on ebay as used. It was the first model with the OEL display. I owned it for 2 or 3 years.

Three years later, I got an email from the guy cussing me out because the display died. I didn't even bother with a reply :)

gideonford > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 15:59

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I've had some fun with backpage lately. Posted some guns for sale (I'd use craigslist but they don't allow it) and got this chain:

Him - What kind of stuff are you looking for in trade?

Me - 22 rifles, 9mm firearms, 22lr and 9mm ammo, may consider other firearms, vehicles. That goes for all 4 guns I posted (ar7, cz82, 7400, and mosin).

Him - Any interest in a 2004 chevy silverado 2500? No engine, no tranny, no doors, no steering column, no title.

Me - Sorry, would need to be along the lines of what I stated or cash. (Trying to be nice)

Him - How about a full size Wurlitzer piano?

I just stopped replying ...

Oasis > BrownMiataDieselWagon 01/06/2014 at 16:00

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That year was really kind of an acquired taste....

J. Walter Weatherman > klurejr 01/06/2014 at 16:00

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An even better idea is to get it notarized. You have to get the title notarized anyway, so it's not that much more hassle to get them to notarize a second document.

Oasis > Oasis 01/06/2014 at 16:00

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Sorry, I see you own a Miata....so.....ummm....yeah.

girldriver > The Ghost of Oppo 01/06/2014 at 16:02

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I sold my 1983 Subaru on CL last spring. I took lots of pictures, admitted to every issue I knew about, and asked a mere $600. I got grilled by buyers on the condition. One lady showed up and said, "oh, I thought it would be bigger and newer." I seriously wanted to scream at everyone "it's 30 years old and has 295,000 miles. I'm so sorry it's not effing perfect."

DoctorDick > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:05

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Great ending, beautiful little car. I myself was also bitten by the small British roadster bug. I bought a Jensen Healey a few years ago and am currently having a v6 swapped into it.

eeee > NoahthePorscheGuy 01/06/2014 at 16:05

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Fucking people more like it. It's never about one single place. Craigslist is just one popular place among many.

steevkay > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:07

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I think all Jalops should read this. Very enjoyable, thanks for sharing your story (I actually put other things that I needed to do aside so that I could finish this).

Johnny Morris > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:08

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Sold a ton of stuff on Craigslist and never had a problem.. It only takes one nut job to change that opinion though..

CobraJoe > Chris Zimmer 01/06/2014 at 16:08

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I've taken a car back exactly once in the 10 years or so I've been buying and selling cars. It was a '90 Thunderbird in horrible condition (which was obvious) that I was selling for $500, and the kid bought it without completely knowing what he was doing and gave me $100 to take it back so he wouldn't have to deal with it.

J. Drew Silvers > Oasis 01/06/2014 at 16:08

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I have a first and a middle name. My middle name is "Drew" and that's what I have always been called for some reason, so I use the "J." as a placeholder for my first name.

hodor > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:10

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What a crackpot. I sold my second to last car via Craigslist. Worried for weeks/months afterwards that I'd hear from him again. Thankfully I never did.

My last car I just straight traded at the dealer. I can't be bothered to worry what kind of freak is going to show up at my door and add unwanted stress to my life.

Glad this worked out for you.

J. Walter Weatherman > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:10

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A tip for protecting yourself when selling a car on CL: before you hit the "publish" button, read through the ad one last time, putting yourself in the mindset of a judge hearing a case of the buyer claiming the car was misrepresented. If anything strikes you as not completely accurate, change it. It also helps if the ad says something like "Car sold 'as is'. You are welcome to have the car inspected by you mechanic prior to sale." Then print a copy of the ad for your records.

It also helps to get the "as is" bill of sale notarized so the buyer can't claim they didn't sign it. You are already getting the title notarized, so it's not that much extra work to get the bill of sale notarized too.

HammerheadFistpunch > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:10

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I bought a car from a person long distance from Craigslist and had similar problems with it immediately. Ran rough, stalled out. Same thing he was experiencing that he though he cured with a new distributor. We worked together and got it sorted out, like human beings. Turns out it was just that he didn't put dielectric grease on the fitting and his timing was a little off. No problem.

CobraJoe > Krash-Kadillak 01/06/2014 at 16:10

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I've never had a problem. Of course, the prospective buyer always shows up in a car that is usually nicer than what I'm selling, and is fully plated, so it's not like they'd leave their car or that the cops wouldn't be able to find them.

The Ghost of Oppo > girldriver 01/06/2014 at 16:11

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She probably thought it was still 1983

TheFriar > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:12

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WHOA! The Hyundai dealer said it would cost me almost 8k for JUST the paint job and clear coat. Can I take it to your Ford dealer instead?

Oasis > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:13

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That's pretty cool, thanks.

Swale > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:14

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I only have one CL story. Back in high school I was gifted a 240Z by my mother so that I would "Have a car to work on" The best way I can describe the car is a "Rolling wreck" The car had sit out in a field in Idaho for 30 years and everything had rusted. Body, frame, engine, transmission, axles, there was not a piece of metal on the car that hadn't rusted.

I took one look at the thing and posted it on CL for $200 which was about $50 more than I would have got selling it for scrap and a $100 more than my mom had bought it for. After a few looky-loo's I got a visit from a kid about my age and his mom. The opened the door looked at the car and then turned their noses up and left saying they would never buy such a piece of crap. Not blaming them for the frankly sensible decision I sold the car for scrap. about 3 months later the kid and his mom came back $200 in hand wanting to buy the car. They were very upset I had gotten rid of it and proceeded to lecture me on my poor understanding of good car buying tactics.

PS9 > Jedidiah 01/06/2014 at 16:15

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I'm half amused and half terrified.

ZimFreak > Jedidiah 01/06/2014 at 16:15

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That is absolutely brilliant.

J. Drew Silvers > J. Walter Weatherman 01/06/2014 at 16:15

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In Georgia, the title doesn't need to be notarized for a sale. You sign it and take it to the tag office - end of story. That's why I had a witness to the signing and it worked out for me. Trust me, this guy would have found a way to tie it up in court even if it were notarized and signed in blood.

J. Walter Weatherman > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:18

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Interesting. I wonder how common it is to not have to notarize the title. I assumed that was something every state did.

slowinseattle > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:19

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Glad this worked out for you. I did like the part "I'll see how this plays out" instead of a final statement. The judge probably was laughing that night about that one.

But don't bozos like these wind up paying court costs? I would hope so....

NCJalop > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:19

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Great story. I love to hear yarns about idiots getting theirs, especially in public. JOY!

J. Drew Silvers > J. Walter Weatherman 01/06/2014 at 16:19

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I believe there are fewer who require it than the other way around.

girldriver > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:20

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I have exactly one good CL story. I had a washer/dryer set that I wanted $100 for. I got a ton of calls, all of them no shows or low ballers. After nearly a month, I got a call from a guy in Reno, 60 miles away. He said he'd come that night and didn't quibble over the price. So that night, the time for him to show up comes and goes. 2 hours go by, still no guy. I was going to write him off as a no show and then he called. He was lost. It seems that he missed the freeway exit to my town and had driven 60 miles past his turn. After i gave him directions,he assured me he was coming. About an hour later, he pulls into my driveway, hands me $100, loads up the set and drives away. Now that's a man of his word. He drove about 240 miles that night. He probably spent more on gas than he did for the washer/dryer.

JayHova > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:21

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That's one clean looking MG offroader.

jdjonesdr > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:21

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Was all of this a clever ruse to get us to read your blog?

Bubs > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:22

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I've also bought and sold several vehicles and other items on Craigslist, but my personal favorite was a scumbag from Connecticut, who claimed to be a Paralegal, and tried to tell me that agreeing to meet up with her and show her the car was a verbal-contact to sell her the car at whatever price she deemed to be acceptable. When I did not accept her hairbrained, lowball offer, she flipped out and threatened to sue me for breach of "verbal contract" which apparently was my email reply saying to the effect of "I will meet up with you at 8:30AM on Sunday so you can check out the car." Of course, nothing on the legal ends of things came out of it because she literally had no case whatsoever. Good old Craigslist!

PTLmarketingltd > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:23

2

I sold my rally car a few years ago to some kid who thought he could take it home, modify it and make it into a road legal car (I would run Rallies on dealer plates) I strongly advised against it, he asked if it could be driven home, again I said it was not road legal. In Ontario you need UVIP paperwork from the province to sell a car, and in big letters I wrote "AS-IS where is" Anyways the kid came, paid cash and drove it home.

Part of the deal was the cache of spare parts (2 motors, 2 transmissions, 8 spare wheels, spare bumpers and the list goes on) and he wanted it all but couldn't afford what I was asking. Being a nice car guy I made a deal if he could come up with $1500 in 30 days he could come get everything, if not, I was going to part everything out. I wrote on the bill of sale the contract we had regarding the 30 days to come up with $1500.

Fast forward 30 days, not even an email from the buyer, so on day 31 everything went online for sale. I parted everything out for about $3500 and then about 6 months after selling the car the buy comes and knocks on my door with $1200 cash and wants all the parts. He was pissed when I told him I sold everything and then pulls out the UVIP package where he had written about our side deal for the parts claiming I gave him 300 days to pick up the parts and it was for $1200.

I laughed and told him to get off my property. He kept hassling me via email and phone, so I went into my files and pulled out the bill of sale, scanned it and emailed it to him to remind him. I also pointed out that the hand writing on the UVIP package would not match my "chicken scratch" handwriting and told him to call the cops and show them the fraudulent evidence.

Fast forward another 6 months and I find the car forsale online, and he is basically using my story as his own about the car. He had stripped it of all the good parts and was asking a little less then what he bought it for. Just to see if I could get my car back for a steal of a deal I sent my friend over with $1000 cash to see if he could grab it for cheap. The guy told my friend the whole story about how the car was built, all the cash that he dumped into it and how he was losing so much money by selling it. After he refused the $1000 cash and said he was firm on the price, my buddy joked that he know the guy who built the car, then laughed.

The car is still for sale, it's a little sad as the guy has it stored on the grass with 4 flat tires. My first rally car didn't die from a crash, it was killed by criagslist stupidity.

Scootin159 > J. Walter Weatherman 01/06/2014 at 16:24

2

Depends on the state - sold many vehicles in NY, and have never had to get the title or bill of sale notorized.

johncalvinyoung > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:24

1

For what it's worth, that's a gorgeous little BRG MGB (pretty much what I want to buy this year, only I think I'd prefer an earlier chrome-bumper one.) Nice find!

MOOOOOOHIT > hedbutter 01/06/2014 at 16:25

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Check out this custom golf cart I found near SF bay area...

J. Drew Silvers > jdjonesdr 01/06/2014 at 16:26

2

Not at all. I write because I want to and enjoy it. This is a car blog and I am a die-hard car guy who wanted to tell a story. I can't post the car stuff on my other blog because that isn't what my readers over there are looking for, so if I can put it here where people with similar interests can read it, I'm happy to. :)

TheCraigy > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:27

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Yeah pro-se = losing

Panhead > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:28

3

Actually I would have had him bring the truck back and checked it out and if it was running rough I probably would have refunded the money. Out of good conscience. It was only a day and a half and those symptoms he described are that of a blown head gasket and perhaps a warped head. The cooling fluid leaks into one of the combustion chambers and eventually fouls out a plug. Depending on the size of the leak(or crack) it can take weeks to months to foul out a plug to cause these symptoms. A shady seller could put a new plug in to "get the car down the road". If the head is warped a shady service tech could just "torque" it down to also get the car "down the road". I'm not saying you did this on purpose but it could have just been bad luck. I would feel guilty about maybe passing this problem onto someone else and I would have taken it back and seen what's what. Just another view on this. You beat him on legal grounds but it may not have been a cool thing to do.

TomTom > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:30

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Interesting, and I am glad it worked out for you, albeit a PITA.

Just a tip: when I am buying or selling a car/motorcycle on CL, I always prefer to meet in a neutral place, like a shopping center. Probably makes no difference, but makes me feel slightly safer.

Also, if you are gonna sell a car for less than it is worth retail, considers selling it to Carmax. They are not quite as picky as their tv adverts would lead you to believe. They aren't lunatics.

synchromesh1 > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:30

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I think you've done everything absolutely right. I've bought and sold cars on Cl before too and luckily didn't have much trouble but I know the feeling anyway. :)

dogisbadob > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:30

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Hey, at least they're not Firestone!

jdjonesdr > jdjonesdr 01/06/2014 at 16:30

1

Oh, and I agree the MG was a smart decision.... (still reading the blog)

The World of Vee > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:32

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I sold my cell phone to a guy on CL recently, he was super excited and happy and thankful that I sold him a phone, etc, etc. He calls me the other day saying that it wasn't working properly and that a cell phone repair shop wants 100$ to fix it up and that I should give him the money ($100 hilariously enough) to repair it. Told him that there is no bill of sale, there is no warranty and there is no refund. He threatened to sue me or go into "legal action" over it. He doesn't know my name, and I use a burner Gvoice number on CL. Let him figure all that out and let him serve me a notice, I kind of hope he does lol.

People on CL are ridiculous sometimes. Don't buy things if you aren't 100% sure you want it. No one forces you to buy something.

elkris > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:33

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20 mins at Carmax would have saved a lot of time... Not sure about money, but definitely time.

Jay Lauer > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:35

2

As a Craigslist flipper, I have some stories of my own, but you clearly take the cake.

In October, I sold my 04 WRX to a gentlemen from Kansas City (About 3 hours from me) who contacted my and only asked if I still had it. About a week later, he drove down to look at it, drove it a short distance, asked no further questions, and offered my only $300 below my asking price. I signed over all the documentation, "as-is" and etc., cash was given, and off he went with the car.

About a week later, I get a long sad-story text saying that he feels he over-payed and didn't realize the amount of damage the car had, citing the broken plastic on the gas level inside and the non-functional driver power window switch as the damages, and asked that I take the car back and return the money.

Luckily, I'm not legal dummy. Buyers have a 3 day appreciation period in the State of Kansas by day 7, he had clearly gone past this. Also, having driven the car three hours back home and more, who knows what could've happened to the car between then.

I decided not to appear rude and cite the law on him. Instead, I stated the truth, which is that I had already spent most of his money buying a replacement car and their wouldn't be anything to give back. He was understanding of this and we haven't spoken sense.

I've met with plenty of crazy people looking at a car I'm selling, but that's the best buyer I've got. In Wichita, KS, it isn't too crazy or dangerous to do Craigslist deals, but you definitely have to be careful. Cool story, though.

thebullfrog > J. Walter Weatherman 01/06/2014 at 16:36

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I've never even heard of getting a title notarized before.

Roadkill > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:36

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I live and practice in the Inbred Willy Wonka Fun Time House of Mirrors state of Florida but even we have a civil cause of action for fraud.

Volvosaurus-Rex > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:36

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This story is epic. It's got everything a good story should have, including the happy ending. Nothing is better than seeing an asshole get what's coming.

pdx107 > J. Walter Weatherman 01/06/2014 at 16:36

1

same in Oregon, don't need it notarized

BlueVillain > hedbutter 01/06/2014 at 16:36

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The sad thing is that the interior looks halfway decent...

But that exhaust... oh lawdie...

J "oppo" Zeke > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:38

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You sound like a legit seller to me, and this is why I always do due diligence with this sort of paperwork when selling a car.

It's also why the lowest priced car I've ever sold I ended up bringing in to a dealer as trade simply because there was too much already wrong with it that - despite copious documentation - I wanted to avoid precisely this sort of thing happening. Congrats on staying cool!

However, selling newer cars off these sites has been a pleasure for me thankfully. It's just so much easier to offload a perfect car, even if it can take that buyer a lot more money to get.

DntPnc > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:38

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I once heard a story, by which I mean I saw it on a daytime court show, where a guy asked to come look at a motorcycle, drove 100 miles to look at it, and when he got there it was sold. So he sued for gas money... People are idiots, like he said take precautions.

Roadster Man > J. Drew Silvers 01/06/2014 at 16:39

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Excellent story. The guy who sold me my Subaru told me that he rebuilt the engine, and the valve cover gaskets were leaking from the third day I owned the car. I'm pretty sure he reused them when he did the rebuild.

I thought about taking him to small claims court for an implied warranty of fitness of goods, but it would have been a waste of time. His word against mine and buyer beware is the rule. I should have made him sign an affidavit that the engine was completely rebuilt. Even better reason to get a real inspection by a mechanic before buying. Not that I've ever been smart enough to do that...